Posts by Richard Oliver

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

OC so you are contending that watchtower has no problem what so ever of a 10 year old being raped on camera.

You also miss the point as great teacher points out she is a mandatory reporting like most teachers in the US and other places. Mandatory reporting laws on child abuse would also include reporting on child porn. As you pointed out child porn is child abuse. So the rules that apply to child abuse would apply to child porn. As watchtower policy as you have been reading it doesn't matter if the abuse occured to a jw child or not. If elders would be obligated to report child abuse they would also be obligated to report that. In fact many states don't have a seperate statute on who is to report child porn but it is rolled into the mandatory reporting statutes of child abuse.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

And OX either you or outlaw kept on saying I was giving a straw man argument. That is exactly what you are doing because you give an argument that no one can disagree with.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

That is very good orphan crow that you care about all the babies and children being raped on camera.and I don't think any reasonable person would disagree. So do you feel that they should be treated legally or by a moral code? What can any NGO do to a criminal vs what a government can do?

I understand you don't care about the grey areas. But you also feel that for instance a young couple should not be df'ed for having premarital sex, that would ruin their life. So my question stands. Should that young couple be arrested tried and convicted and put on a sex offender registry for sending naked pictures to each other. And that is not a hypothetical that is a real issue that happens all the time.

There is a case of a famous gay porn actor who lied about his age when he started to perform, he was either 16 or 17. It later came out that he was under age and the producer was charged with trafficking in child porn, there was questions of if someone kept one of those films even by accident would they be guilty of possession of child porn.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

Ok OC yes I agree with you. Child porn is child abuse. Do you feel that a teen couple in NC should be considered child predators because they sent each other naked selfies? Or is there some gray areas? We may not agree on the exact gray areas.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

Ok OC. Do you want governments to regulate morality or laws?

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

OC in your narrow definition yes that is child abuse. But again in your narrow definition, which is not the legal definition, of someone under 10.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

If you want to talk about the legality of Watchtower reporting cases of child porn then stick with the legality of it. If you want to speak about the morality then stick with that. Just because it is pointed out again it is a complex issue and a worldwide directive has to vary to some degree based on jurisdictions and how certain governments view it then you immediately switch. Is child porn showing the abuse of a child of course. but it is not that simple anymore.

There is a segment of porn that depicts legal performers that look exceptionally young in porn or the fantasy of some people to watch porn that fantasies legal performers who pretend that they are high school students. It is the law defines what is allowed depending on the jurisdictions. Then you have some countries where even the sex acts of not 18 year olds but only 21+ is allowed. It is a complex situation.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

Matthew is speaking of a spiritual aspect and not a legal aspect. Can the police arrest you for saying, God I want to kill that guy, if you don't make a specific threat or plans to murder that person? No, they can't arrest you for your thoughts. When was the last time a person was disfellowshipped for thinking about commiting fornication or thinking about adultery. It requires putting those thoughts into action.

And you are conflating legal and moral questions together. Governments can only enforce laws not morals.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

Everything that i stated is correct you may not agree with my conclusion but that is what the law is. So are you saying that you feel that teenagers should be arrested and prosecuted for child pornography?

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

Richard Oliver

This is a much deeper subject. What is defined as child pornography is different and has different exceptions based on what is the image and how it is used. By your definition a doctor conducting research by taking pictures of children's genitalia where that child has a medical condition could be construed by some as child pornography. Or if a parent innocently takes a funny picture of children in the bathtub playing like many parents did in the past that could be construed and child pornography. Or if a teenager takes a naked selfie of themselves and sends it to their boyfriend/girlfriend who is also under age both have trafficked in child pornography. In the US there is also been cases where there has been virtual child pornography cases where the courts have ruled that only an actual minor can be considered in the trafficking of child pornography. Also, most states and the federal government allow for the accidental viewing or downloading of child pornography but is also very specific depending on the jurisdiction on what needs to be reported and what doesn't.

Justice Stewart wrote:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." So there is always questions when it comes to pornography.

Also you have to remember some jurisdictions like Australia has much stricter rules on pornography in general than other jurisdictions. And what you are quoting from is a worldwide document.